• Open • [Discussion] Ghost Skills: Living Skills and Capstones

[Pegasus]

Just giving this a nudge - anyone else?

(thanks bunches, Pigs and Seira!)

[Ulric]

I’m also interested in being part of the working group!

[Squirrel]

I'd like to offer my opinion on this topic, provide a vision of the future of Ghosts on Idalos, and offer a few directions of progression towards this. Unfortunately it's a little at odds with what has been discussed so far, so I'm going to be as comprehensive as I can in my explanations.

Ghosts, as they exist on Idalos, are mortal races that have died but have (so far) refused to pass into the afterlife. While it is possible to start a character that is already a ghost, it is not possible for a ghost to start without first being a living being. It is for this reason that I believe it is accurate to refer to ghosts as transitory beings - they are a mid-point between being alive and passing into the afterlife (true death). While I understand there is a wish to play out a story being a ghost, I don't believe in the idea of becoming 'the best ghost that a ghost can be' can ever trump the concept of restoring oneself to life, because from a mechanical and a narrative perspective, ghosts are an error in the natural progression of life - one that Famula and her followers are constantly seeking to correct, as well.

This is also why, in my opinion, the current theme of ghosts being anchored to reality through single-minded obsessions might not lend itself to them growing or learning, might indeed limit a player in what stories they can tell, and this is regrettable - but the fact that it encourages players to search out resurrection as soon as they have enough experience as a ghost is really half the point. Ghosts are fleeting souls of the dead that should have already passed and are clinging to what little they have left by their fingernails, existing on effectively borrowed time before Famula or Vri or Pier and Pre push them into the afterlife and erase them forever.

There is also the mechanical aspect of ghosts to consider: Becoming a ghost for any player on Idalos is easy. Just die IC, in any thread, for whatever reason the player can think up, and you can choose to become a ghost with no skill or progression requirements to meet. If any player wishes to spend time as a ghost and complete a story as a ghost, they can, at no consequence. However, ghosting is also currently used as a punishment as well, as death is a punishment. If a character or player commits poor actions, for example attempting to openly murder someone, a moderator intervention could conceivably impose a punishment where the character will be killed as a result. The player will then be allowed to become a ghost and return to life later as redemption for their poor actions, but the act of being killed and becoming a ghost is considered both a punishment for their actions and a sign of mercy, by allowing the character to not permanently die and force the player to make a new character and lose all current progression. This also lends to the idea of the concept of a ghost being a transitory state, with characters both of a low and high level entering and leaving the state rather than creating a new state with all the existing benefits one would normally experience while alive (i.e., progression of the same living skills) or new and exclusive benefits added as compensation for these pitfalls (i.e., ghost skills).

In my opinion, catering to both of these states just wouldn't function. Making ghosts anything but "inferior" in some way to living beings, making them able to progress in the same skills as the living and effectively able to live on forever in their state while still being able to develop and grow and interact with the material world, removes the punishment or the negative consequences of death. As it currently stands, having ghost skills that are unobtainable to non-ghosts and might even be able to be retained when someone returns to life, actively rewards death with progression and development. This, of course, is incredibly unfair on characters that start out as a ghost.

With this in mind, I'd actually like to make a more drastic shift in the direction of this discussion, and propose that ghosts are no longer recognised as a starting race, period. Those that are a ghost, remain as a ghost, but you are only able to become one through IC development.

Exactly what ghosts are needs to be clearly defined for all the points mentioned thus far. What's the deal with their skills, their progression, and in my opinion the most important caveat, how does a ghost resurrect back into a mortal. This, I think, needs to be discussed with Luther, as the only current ghost on the site. Once that is done, then development of an improved write-up can be done between Lore Analysis and those with insight into the race or input to contribute.

Sorry to bulldoze a little like this, but I'm coming at this with a bit of a site-wide perspective than a race-specific one, and I think that the mechanics of death have been something overlooked a few times now because it's something quite detrimental to the players involved and the stories they want to tell. While I sympathize, of course, I do believe that the answer to dealing with the elephant in the room is not to ignore it.

[Luther]

Thanks for the input Squirrel. I appreciate the depth of your explanation, and appreciate you bringing up some site-wide and lore-centered perspective that I was missing. I'd be happy to discuss changes to Ghosts as they stand on the site in both a working group and discuss the pathways to resurrection in a more 1-on-1 scenario if necessary.

Whatever is easiest! Happy to chat or help in anyway.