Start Packages Working Group.

This is a temporary subforum for managing the massive Wealth Tier System that is being implemented.

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Start Packages Working Group.

Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:03 pm

Starter Packages:!

This is going to be worked on by
Anya
Yrmellyn
Banshee
Bumblebee
Peg
Aegis


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Re: Start Packages Working Group.

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:27 pm

Yaralon Villager
(Absolute Poverty, Destitute, Poor Wealth Tiers)


The region around Yaralon is dotted with many villages, most of which are under the protection of a mercenary company. These villages are full of simple people, and are usually built around one or two resources the protecting mercenary company wishes to control. This might be one of the few spots where a crop will grow, or where a certain mineral can be mined, or a useful animal can be raised or hunted. These villages rarely number more than a hundred, and it is not unheard of for the villages to be attacked by beast, disease, and other mercenary companies vying for control. It is a rough life of scraping by, just surviving. Most of these villagers aren't strong enough to reach Yaralon proper alive, so they don't try. They live in poverty, comforted by the fact that warriors protect them from the world. At least until those warriors fall, and the village is lost. Many have gone this way, and many more will continue to do so.

Skills - Standard

Knowledges - Standard

Languages - Standard, though Common (Yari) is the local dialect.

NPCs - Standard

Housing - Housing in the villages is often small and sparse. They are most commonly a single room house, with all structures typically being a single story. Mud and clay are the most common building materials, with grasses often for thatching. Villages in Bastards' Grove and Maiden's Refuge will have more wood present, and those near to the Spines will have more stone. But the construction is almost always crude. Just enough to provide some shelter from the elements. These homes often include a simple bed of cloths or fur upon the ground, clay pots for storage, and a small fireplace set in the wall. They are often sparse, with any decor often made by the residents rather than purchased.

Example - Thatched Roof Mud Hut

There is no renting in the villages. If you do not own a house, you must be living with someone. Strays end up dead or lost to the wilds.

Equipment - 1 Free Skill Toolkit, 1 Large animal up to Average Tier in value, 1 Small animal up to Average Tier in value. All other items must fit the Wealth Tier you choose for your PC.

Wealth Tier - You may choose between Absolute Poverty, Destitute, or Poor Tiers.
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Re: Start Packages Working Group.

Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:03 pm

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Re: Start Packages Working Group.

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:40 pm

First go at the Deserter Starter Pack
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Seafaring Starter Package

Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:45 am

WORK IN PROGRESS v2 - Updated: 11/17/2018


Introduction:
A starting pack that favors the players who wish to call the seas of Idalos home. Be these Biqaj character’s looking to make the sea their home, players who wish to pursue a life of piracy, and everything in between.

Housing:
Pick one of the following:

Option 1- Captain Your Own Ship:
A small one-masted sailing Sloop (boat) with a mainsail and jib rigged fore and aft. This sloop has a small hold and living quarters under the main deck, enough room for a for a single bed, table or small writing desk, chair, storage chest, and shelf.

1 x Hammock or Bed
1 x Gangplank
1 x Small table or Writing Desk
1 x Chair
1 x Chest
6 x Plates (assorted)
2 x Eating knives
1 x Fish smoker
1 x Lantern
1 x Map (for the shoreline of one major city)
Enough rope, rigging, maintenance supplies, etc for one Cycle.

Option 2 - Crewing on an NPC Ship:
A player can choose to join a crew of a ship rather their have their own. This ship can be any on the price list or something similar. These ships are fully outfitted with Captain, First Mate, and Crew. Along with all the equipment and rations needed to sail and maintain the ship. This ship will need to be clearly described and detailed in a player's Character Sheet.

Note: This ship does not belong to the player. See below for NPC information on this opinion

Wealth Tier:
Someone taking Opinion 1 of this package, has their starting wealth tier based on the Wealth Skill. If the player takes Opinion 2 will have their starting wealth tier based on their Wealth Skill +1 Wealth Tier (Example, if you start in wealth tier 2 and choose opinion 2. Your starting wealth tier is 3)

Note: If you take a ship, to better represent the finance struggle of owning and maintaining a ship that sails the open seas. A player must maintain their starting wealth tier for at least two cycles (Points maybe earned, but tier can not be surpassed).

NPCs:
For players that select opinion 2:
You must fully create two NPC’s for the ship you are crewing. These two NPC must follow the NPC guidelines.

Note: These NPC fall into the Personal NPC category but with the following exceptions:
1.) Captain NPC can grant the PC seasonal “salary”.
2.) Captain NPC can grant the player rewards, if earned ICly (Example: Booty from a Pirate attack).

Ship Captain:
-Can have up to 150 skill points. Up to 40 points in one skill. All others No more than 30 and no less than 5 in one skill

First Mate:
-Can have up to 100 skill points. No more than 30 and no less than 5 in one skill

All NPCs from this Starting Package must be submitted to the Prophet Support Forum (PSF) and titled “Personal NPCs’ and mention in the thread that you are taking opinion 2 of the seafaring package.

Starting Items:
All from Wealth Tier 4:
1 x Set of clothing
1 x Set of toiletries
1 x Tinderbox
1 x Compass
1 x Spyglass
1 x Small Fishing Net or Sea-Fishing Pole
1 x Small anchor
1 x Week’s worth of dried food rations
1 x Week’s worth of Salt Buoy
1 x Small Knife (6 inch blade or smaller)

Heirloom Items:
You may have ONE item at up to TWO Wealth Tiers above your own as part of this Pack. However, this can not be sold or given away and must be of emotional or practical significance to your PC.

 ! Message from: Pegasus
This has been uploaded to the wiki, please feel free to comment - wiki link is: here
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Re: Start Packages Working Group.

Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:52 pm

First Draft

Introduction:
A starting pack that is tailored to fit those player who wish to settle their character down in the rural environment outside of the hussle and bussle of the urban cities. This package is design to suite the players who wish to have a character serve as some form of farmer or rancher. To work the land and provide the populations of Ilados the much need bounties of the land.

Housing:

Farmer's housing will be 400 sq ft. Houses include one bed, two chairs, one table, two knives, a set of six plates (assorted), one chest, and a fireplace. Most farmhouses will either appear as small cottages made of wood or stone, depending on the location. Housing formats may be found in the cities in question.

Starting Items:
  • 1 x set of clothing.
  • 1 x Set of Toiletries: Soap, A comb or brush, razor, toothbrush, toothpaste.
  • 1 x Ox.
  • 1 x Small, ox-drawn cart
  • 1 x Wheelbarrow
  • 1 x Tinderbox
  • One Months worth of Rations (Sugar, Meat, Flour, Etc)
Farms/Land:
To help facilitate the various types of agriculture within the world and to help players have a starting package to suit their characters, pick one of the following four opinions:

Note: Speak to your local Prophet about land layout including locations of woodlands, ponds, lakes, rivers, etc.

Opinion 1 - Growing Produce
Land: 1 Acre of workable land, that includes the player’s home and a well.

Equipment/Supplies:
  • 1 x Ox drawn plow
  • Compost pile (Yields enough compost for an acre)
  • 1 x Rake
  • 1 x Spade
  • 1 x Shovel
  • 1 x Hoe
  • 1 x Hand Fork
  • 1 x Watering Can
  • You may choose your starting crops, but limited to four types (Corn, Beans, Wheat, etc)
Option 2 - Raising Livestock
Land: Up to 5 Acres of grazing/pasture land (no less than an Acre), that includes player’s house and a well.

Equipment/Supplies:
  • Appropriate housing structure, if needed (hen house, pig pen, etc)
  • 1 x large Water container
  • 1 x large Feed container
  • 1 x cycle worth of animal feed
  • Either 2 horses (breeding pair), three cows & bull, 8 sheep, goats or pigs (will at least one male), or twenty chickens (with at least one rooster. You may only pick one animal type.
Opinion 3 - Raising Bees:
Land: 2 Acres of prime bee raising land (high amounts of flowering plants), that includes player’s house and a well.

Equipment/Supplies:
  • 1 x bee suit, complete with hood and gloves.
  • 2 x Beehives. This consists of boxes, supers, bottom boards, covers, and frames with patterned wax foundations.
  • 1 x smoker
  • 1 x hive tool (which is a mini pry bar specifically for beekeeping)
  • 5000 x Worker Bees
  • 2 x Queen Bees
Opinion 4 - Farm/Ranch Hand
Land: 1 / 4 of an Acre assigned to you by farm/ranch owner. Has access to water source. Farm/Ranch that player works on follows guidelines from above, except tripled (Working on Farm, NPC farm is 3 acres of farmland with various crops. OR NPC ranch is up to 15 acres with up to three different livestock types and triple the amount of start animals). These Farms/ Ranches are fully outfitted with Owner/Family, Foreman, and other farm/ranch hands.

Wealth Tier:
Someone taking Opinion 1-3 of this package, has their starting wealth tier based on the Wealth Skill. If the player takes Opinion 4 will have their starting wealth tier based on their Wealth Skill +1 Wealth Tier (Example, if you start in wealth tier 2 and choose opinion 2. Your starting wealth tier is 3)

NPC’s:
For players that select opinion 2:
You must fully create Farm/Ranch Owner NPC for the farm/ranch you are working on. You may create a Foreman NPC. These two NPC must follow the NPC guidelines.

Note: These NPC fall into the Personal NPC category but with the following exceptions:
1.) Owner NPC can grant the PC seasonal “salary”.
2.) Owner NPC can grant the player rewards, if earned ICly (Example: granting land, livestock, etc)

Farm/Ranch Owner:
-Can have up to 150 skill points. Up to 40 points in one skill. All others No more than 30 and no less than 5 in one skill

Foreman:
-Can have up to 100 skill points. No more than 30 and no less than 5 in one skill

All NPCs from this Starting Package must be submitted to the Prophet Support Forum (PSF) and titled “Personal NPCs’ and mention in the thread that you are taking opinion 4 of the farmer’s starting package.

Heirloom Items:
You may have ONE item at up to TWO Wealth Tiers above your own as part of this Pack. However, this can not be sold or given away and must be of emotional or practical significance to your PC.

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Lei'lira
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Re: Start Packages Working Group.

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:31 am

The farmer starting package looks interesting to me. Lei'lira is a farmer/horse breeder, and this package is greatly improved over the 1/4 acre she started with. And I love the option of being able to own your own farm, or work on an existing one. I do have a few questions/comments though.

1.
One Months worth of Rations (Sugar, Meat, Flour, Etc)
You might want to change this to thirty trials rather than a month since we have season instead of months here, and a season can be 30-123 trials depending on which one it is. The question that comes along with this is - does having these supplies mean reduced expenses for the first season? So if a player starts in Cylus, they would have no expenses that season, and if they started in another season, they would get a discount of some kind on expenses? If so, that would need to be mentioned in the starting package somewhere.

2. The other question that this brings up is would it make sense to change this to thirty trials of animal feed for those choosing the option of raising animals?

3. Currently, people choosing a farming package get a 300 GN loan to be paid off in an arc. This can be used to be more/better farming equipment, more land, more animals/crops, etc. Would people choosing to own their own farm rather than work a larger one get a wp version of this?

4. It is mentioned that one acre of land will support four crops in this starting package. In the old one, a quarter acre would support the same amount. Since this has been changed, has the amount of land needed to feed a grazing animal changed to match? In the old version, a quarter acre would feed one horse/cow/ox, or two sheep/goats/pigs, or 20 chickens. So an acre would feed four horses based on that. If this has be cut down to one acre feeding one animal, it should be mentioned in the starting package. But it should also be mentioned as an announcement when this is released since it will affect the cost of feeding animals for people already onsite.

Using Lei'lira as an example, she has 53 horses, 34 sheep, 1 ox, 3 cows, 1 bull, and 20 chickens. She also has 19 acres of land. With the original method of 1/4 an acre of land feeding one horse/cow/ox, or two sheep/goats/pigs, or 20 chickens, that 19 acres of land feeds all of her animals with 1/4 acre to spare for crops or more animals. But if one acre now feeds one horse, etc., she suddenly has a big bill for animal feed each season. Other farmers may be in the same boat, so you will need to let people know so that they can subtract the necessary wp to cover that each season.
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Re: Start Packages Working Group.

Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:02 pm


Thank you for your feedback Lei'lira! I took the idea of working on a farm/ranch from my concept with the Seafarer's Package. I figured it could work here as well. As for your questions, I will attempt to answer them.

"1. You might want to change this to thirty trials rather than a month since we have season instead of months here, and a season can be 30-123 trials depending on which one it is. The question that comes along with this is - does having these supplies mean reduced expenses for the first season?"

First part, I will edit the wording. I typed this right before bed and it slipped through. Thank you for pointing it out. As for your second question... I would say so. I added it in as a balancing act to show that character's farms were somewhat established and full functioning. The way I picture it is the funds that you would have to spend on food and such, you are spending on getting the farm fully set up. Then the next cycle/season, your "rations" are gone and you are having to actively use what you harvest or purchase/trade for more. If that makes sense.

"2. The other question that this brings up is would it make sense to change this to thirty trials of animal feed for those choosing the option of raising animals"

To be honest, I used what he old starting package had. Personally I could make an argument that animal feed is easier to come by, cheaper to buy and bulk, and the average rancher would have more feed at hand to keep the animals fed, rather than keep the family fed.

"Currently, people choosing a farming package get a 300 GN loan to be paid off in an arc. This can be used to be more/better farming equipment, more land, more animals/crops, etc. Would people choosing to own their own farm rather than work a larger one get a wp version of this?"

I didn't think that it would be required, as farmers/ranchers normally struggle (IMO) as it is. I also don't feel that a farm/ranch is as "overpowered' or needing balance as owning a ship (I wrote the Seafaring Package as well). But I can see your point. I could go and add the same thing I had for the Seafarers. That if a player chooses opinion 1-3, they can't raise a Wealth Tier... I.E. "Note: If you take a farm/ranch, to better represent the finance struggle of owning and maintaining a full functioning farm/ranch, the player must maintain their starting wealth tier for at least two cycles (Points may be earned, but tier cannot be surpassed)."

"Insert question number 4 here."

No offense to Kingdom or any of the other Staff Members who wrote the original Farmer's Package, but they did not do the proper research on land needed to sustain livestock. A single Cow/Horse actually needs 1.5 - 2 acres of pasture/grazing land to actually survive. Trying to graze the original 2 horses or three cows on 1/4 of an acre would have left those animals dead. Even with my acre numbers, it would still be pushing the "realism" aspects of the game (Note: I added the Bull to create a breeding situation). The smaller animals can deal with smaller amounts of land (Example: 25-35 pigs can graze a single acre).

This is why I also increased the amount of land for beekeepers, as each colony needs approximately 1 acre of land to sustain itself.

As for the Crops, I did some research and the average farm in the middle ages was approximately 30 acres per household. 1/4 an acre is just too small. I didn't look too deep into how many types of crops the land can handle. I just increased the overall amount of types of crops that a starting farm can take.

Lastly on this topic, I will look into complying a guidelines based on IRL numbers on how much land is needed per species of livestock to effective handle grazing/pasturing. As for increasing/grandfatheing current farmers to the new demographics of land needed. I will have to speak to Pegasus and let her and the staff decide.

But thank you for the feedback. I will look more into this and balance it a bit more.

-Isen

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Re: Start Packages Working Group.

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:09 pm

I have never worked a farm, or owned livestock, so I had no idea how much land was needed irl (my knowledge on mucking out stalls and such that I use in job threads comes from the internet). So I am not objecting the increase as such. But I am saying that since I am likely to need to start paying a lot more for animal feed (probably on the level of 200+ wp per season), that needs to be included in the info somewhere. Factoring that in may cause Lei's wealth tier to drop as a result.

I wasn't thinking along the lines of grandfathering anything in because that would give older players too much of an advantage over new players wanting to grow their farm. But I do need to know exactly how much more I will be spending per season for feed, and if Lei can actually afford the animals she currently owns. I may need to sell some off if she can't. Currently, it costs 2 GN to feed a horse/cow/ox, 1.5 GN to feed a sheep/goat/pig, and 1 GN to feed 20 chickens per season. But that is based on the system where 1/4 acre will feed 1 horse, etc. For the new system, I figure that those numbers need to be increased significantly to match. So maybe 50-75 wp to feed a horse/large animal, 30-40 wp for a sheep/medium sized one, and 25 wp to feed 20 chickens per season. Possibly more for all of those. One could argue that you would need either 1 acre of land, or the wp equivalent per animal each season. So that could be 200 wp per season per horse (or 2 sheep, or 20 chickens) since an acre of land currently costs 200 GN.

As for the loan, I was actually thinking that the loan would be of benefit to those owning a ranch since owning better equipment would be a benefit. This would offset the advantage of working on an existing farm where you will have a higher wealth tier to start. Unless I missed something?
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Re: Start Packages Working Group.

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:34 pm

I haven't worked on any of the price list stuff but I think your estimations for what it would cost to feed an animal per season or cycle are wayyyyy too high, Lei. In general, 1wp is worth a lot more than 1gn. Remember the loose conversion of 1000gn to 1wp? As far as I'm aware, there's no exact way to quantify what a wp is worth in gn, because the way the two systems work are so different. But I would guess feeding animals would be somewhere in the 1-5wp/season or /cycle range no matter how many animals you have. Maybe more than that if you have like, a LOT of animals or an animal like a jacadon that might require special costs.

You may also be able to automatically feed animals without having to use wp based on your tier level. For example, a farmer at tier 5 may be able to feed 10 horses without extra cost, and the number of animals they could feed without having to spend extra wp would likely go up per tier. I imagine that there will be some sort of system like that included in the price list.
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