Now that some reviews have come up and I have had a chance to look at the system closer, I have a number of concerns with the system focused primarily on how we get skills and how our characters will advance. I will start with the first part:
How do we actually get points?
It has been said that we can get up to a maximum of 15 points in a thread (yay for skills!) and similarly there has been word we can easily get to 25 (our first 25 in any skill that is) within two if we're lucky and only be expected to start working a harder from there but unfortunately I believe that this is not the case from what I've seen. This is from the breakdown of a review, 5/5/5 or Story/Collaboration/Structure and below are my issues with such a system.
Story:
There is no problem with how this is considered except,
for the most important element in a thread we are giving it equal weight to others which can easily be sidelined (e.g. the problem with "Collaboration") In my opinion "story" should account for a lot more especially when it effectively determines the tone, complexity, detail and pretty much everything else the PC does and isn't that what is important? What the PC actually does? Or are OOC considerations like the other two going to just as important even if one is redundant and the other means nothing?
Structure:
This I find a little iffy. Like a lot of you I came to have fun and not "work" (the kind I thought is behind me after leaving school) Being graded on
this and risk being effectively penalized for not treating this like an exam? If I am going to get marked I better be getting paid or have a better advantage in my chosen vocation. I concede this has an actual effect on the thread, how easy it will be for another to follow it but if that is the case "structure" may as well be done away with and be considered as a part of "story" as lacking "structure" just means that no one would actually be able to follow your "story" properly.
Also
this undermines one of the reasons for the skill changes in the first place. Where it used to be a hunt by reviewers to figure out what skills and knowledge to award, they are now encouraged to hunt for flaws and whatever else the reviewers think is reason why their
peers aren't up to some other subjective standard and I think this will introduce a detrimental culture to ST's community. This also seems discriminatory to players who aren't as fluent in English or people with different writing styles which the one reviewer at the time does not like. We are on the internet. We have more than enough discrimination as is.
While we may label this as constructive criticism, its not helpful when it becomes something a person cannot ignore if they don't care for it (maybe a belief what works for one person is different to another and it is preferable to stick with something familiar or, you can't please all reviewers with all their different opinion) if they don't want to get screwed over. I for one can say that I wouldn't want to choose to spend my time on something which may force me to feel/be lesser, especially when it
will have a substantial effect on my overall experience, progress and capabilities. I don't think I am the only one to feel this way.
It is here I would like to point out while the old system had its flaws there was at least one good thing about it. Certainty. You do something and you get something back without fear that it will be reduced for things which aren't in your contemplation. This is why "structure" should be done away with, because
it has that element of uncertainty each time you are dealing with another reviewer.
In the end, the
PC should be improving for what the PC does and not for whatever its writer doesn't.[/url]
Collaboration:
This I would say is the biggest issue on how we can obtain skills as there are other ways better suited to encourage collaboration with others. A lot of you may now go and take a look at the reviews now that the update was released. What do you see? That's right. The reviews give 0 for this element alone by virtue of those threads being solos because how can collaboration exist without another party?
Not only does this mean that us being told we are able to max out with 15 points in a thread is false, this also means that
it penalizes certain choices a player might make. You have chosen to do a solo for something important to your character? Sorry, only 10 points no matter how relevant it is to your PC's story compared to yet another one of those meaningless bar meet and greets. You want 15? Grab someone else to join your thread. Yes even if the thread is for secret stuff you don't want to make known to other PCs IC. Yes even if the thread is something your character has to do alone.
Yes even if to do so is extremely artificial to anyone actually reading (which will then mess your "story") All this does is promote an idea that
it is not what you do, but who you do it with which is important.
And there are so many other times you can't even get a who for your threads so you will be penalized for reasons out of your control like: some places being devoid of activity and bodies, some races which can't buddy up with other races (e.g. as Niv has told me an issue of his mer being unable to be in a thread with anyone else until another mer joined ST and even then he can only has that one mer to buddy up with now) or some characters not being suited to interact with other people. The list goes on. "Collaboration" has become a subversion to discourage certain choices a player can make in a camouflaged way and not, to encourage collaboration at all.
A better example with PCs and magic (while I don't care for the secret clubs as a lot of you know, this is the simplest example) is magic in Idalos is disliked by the populace. A limitation with the new update is a PC cannot use any skill points obtained on it unless magic has been used in the thread (hence it is harder to raise magic compared to other skills but I am not going into that in detail) When a PC wants to learn/develop a new application or method to magic, progress is now stunted compared to other skills not because the full skill points can't be spent on it but because there isn't another in the thread to "collaborate" with.
PCs using the more deplorable of the arcane disciplines like Necromancy are SOL most of the time in massing (or attempting to mass) their undead army. Unless there is a coven/faction of PCs or something and have a reason to somehow justify why you are together all the time they use Necromancy even if they don't want to share their (already limited) resources.
While it may seem odd that there are those in our hobby which might not want to interact with others, we can't discount the fact there are those comfortable with enjoying/interacting with the world on their own, or have a lot of personal development for their own PCs. They want to build something in the world but how can they when for the same amount of effort into their PC they can see another breezing by doing something insubstantial? We shouldn't effectively penalize them compared to the other players because in the end to the individual, it is their story which is important. Involving another is just another benefit available to them when being in ST, not a tax to be in it.
Also "Collaboration" as is is pretty abusable. As written, if you really want to cheese getting skill points just find other people and keep making three post threads with them to ensure the easy 5 skill points. You may tank in the other elements but that constant 5 in quick succession is a certainty for you
instead of actually having to put effort into something and have the system not give you what you worked for because of completely unimportant considerations.
Again there are ways to encourage collaboration among players but unfortunately this is not it. I can't assist with the problem of collaboration other than to point out simple fact
in the end it is up to the individual player to want to collaborate with others and it will take time for them to find those they are comfortable with therefore encourage it properly. Forcing it this way artificially? There has to be a better way.
Points in advancing one's character.
From the above, the best of the worst scenario is a pure solo player being given a max of 10 skills for each thread in contrast with a player who
does everything with everyone getting a max of 15 skills for each thread. Consider both obtain their knowledges as needed to advance and they need 251 to master a fresh skill. The former will need 26 threads while the latter will need 17. That is a difference of 9 threads!
This means so much more when you actually realize...they aren't going to be getting anything else. To say that the need to spread out ones skill would be the system working as intended but lets continue a little more before we cement that idea.
We contrast with the old system where doing something get the same in skills or "you get out what you put it." I agree it is grindy and I personally do not like grinding but it at least keeps the PC and his actions relevant. So under the old system the same players do their threads. Solo does 26, maxing out the skill. Oh wait. He could have actually stopped at 20. Meanwhile Friendly McFrienderson is shy of 3 threads to max out his. Oh well. Then again wouldn't it be fair if they put in the same amount of effort? But lets not go there since fairness isn't always the underlying principle. More importantly while they are doing their 17-20 threads under the old system they are also getting other skills thus diversifying their PC as well, an entity (or in gaming terms avatar) we use to interact with this world.
I'm not going to stop there because I don't think my point is quite made yet so my point is this:
Character advancement under this new system is going to be a lot more cumbersome in the long run. Especially when you can't be relying on maxing out each time. You could be doing same things you would be doing in the old system but you are still not going to be up to par as an individual or even, in individual skills themselves which you are focused on. Sure you at least now get what you want but that is only if you illogically abandon all other aspects of your character.
There is also one point to be made regarding character advancement and its this. At the point you can be doing bigger and greater things and do choose to do bigger and greater things as your skill would allow, you are going to still get some pretty low skills in your awards. Again to illustrate and again with magic because it is easier, maybe your PC has revolutionized how conduits are made and to impress everyone else he did it all on his own.
Nope you were doing it all on your own so the most you can get is...10! So that is 2.5 points closer to you becoming a legend. 9 more breakthroughs and only then you will be a legend. Orrrrrrrr, you can make yet another conduit 9 more times. Actually make a conduit for someone else, 6 more PCs to be exact and make sure they are around to watch even if you don't actually need them for anything. Somehow having bystanders makes you improve at a far better rate than actually working.
I hope I had made the point on how inefficient and strange all this is.
So my question is this. In a year or two, where do you want to see your PC at? A person considered an icon in his chosen field but still inept at everything else an individual would be capable of or a person who can live in this world but still amounts to nothing in the eyes of everyone else? In the old system what you would be is both if you had the equal amount of threads, not an inept nothing but an icon which can live his life. We are here to write true, but we are also here to develop and create something and not actually getting anywhere is going to be frustrating. There are other ways to point out the inefficiency of the currency of points in the new system such as skill to post ratio when compared to the old system but I think the above is most effective in demonstrating what I mean.
Now this has been a wall of text being quite critical of the new system and I know some of you will say
"but we are here to write, who cares about points?" but this is necessary because
the moment you track your points in your sheet, the moment you use it to determine what you can or can't do, you have made it important whether you'd like to admit it or not. If skills are not important and writing is like some would like to believe, we would have done away with any sort of skill based system entirely and not try to change it.
However if you are still with me at this point, I will try to give some points which hopefully could be used to assist in making the system a lot more sustainable for everyone.
Proposals for consideration:
- Do away with "structure" and merge it with "story" at the same time giving "story" a lot more weight by allowing more points to be given through of it.
- Change "collaboration" to something which doesn't suggest you being penalized for choosing to not involve other players in your personal plots. Something like "interaction" to take into account both choices, playing with others and playing without. The former could work the same as "collaboration" currently is (although its still pretty artificial and abusable but I guess it'll encourage collaboration because it is easier) and the latter perhaps depending on how the PC interacts with the world, or as a substitute to how the former currently works, how the PC interacts with others and the effects of the other PCs interactions with the world if you catch my meaning. While this may risk spill over with "story" it can also be determined on how consistently (the lore of) the world is portrayed throughout the thread e.g. racial culture, city events, arcane procedure.
- In reference to the previous points, increase the amount a person can get from a thread maybe like "Story" and "Interaction" in a 10/10 split. Or 15/10/ Or 15/15 as needed (and by as needed perhaps revisit the subject of character advancement a few months to a year down the line)
- Allow for more points the more content is made instead of a hard cap which encourages people to stay within 3 posts per thread. Quantity may not be equivalent to quality but quality is not encouraged by shortcuts.
- Increase the weight of points obtained. Instead of 1/2/3/4/5 increments maybe 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 (if it looks like it will end up being too slow) or 1/1.5/2.5/3/5 (to show a increased difficulty upon reaching certain milestones while being a tad bit faster) In the end knowledges are still an alright gatekeeper to prevent too fast an advancement.
- Allow for ways to increase the amount of fast track skills available to a character as time goes on. This at least should be able to allow for a more focused way to advance one's character based on personal evolution instead of that one choice in conception. That said to prevent abuse there should be some structure in place but this isn't the point to think about it.
- A suggestion I have made when the new weapons mechanics was released way back, umbrella skills (yes I am going to call it that) spill over into all skills so even if the focus is on that one skill, it is still relevant with its other applications e.g. medicine to surgery, etiquette to spy, acting to disguise if you have the knowledge to back it up, the same way you can be good with a sword and still use that training for being good with a knife.
- Remove the hard limit of 15 (or effectively 10 in the case of solos) points per thread. Repeated because it is really really really cumbersome.
Closing (because I can't think of anything suitable for the header)
If someone points it out I will agree with the changes being made only recently it may be premature of me to critique on the update this way but what I say is I have tried to look further into the possible ramifications of the update so we can better navigate this new climate before the ship even sinks instead of being forced to revisit the changes in the future when everyone has invested much. I will admit the idea of a less grindy system had appealed to me (an old character of mine would prosper in such a system and I'm pretty sure I haven't even completed more than a handful of solos on him compared to his "collaboratives") but in looking into it, this will not help the symptoms for the need to grind but instead discourage any sort of character development for an illogical form of grinding where the only way to prevent it would be to rely on any stigma which may be attached to such a practice.
Also being a young site where no one has advanced to such a level, it is easier to think of this system as
"great, we won't have to do much anymore and just sit in the bar for drinks to be good at [insert non bar drinking skill here]" but that is only because our PCs are still in essence young as well and the quick climb especially for the new skills are the only thing we have in contemplation. But what about once we are here for a year? Even longer than that?
The new system is good for newbies but far less beneficial for older PCs if anyone gets/survives that far and at this point I have my doubts that there will be any older PCs in the long term as the new system will most definitely be unable to sustain their progress even if the player now has the option of having the choice in progression. A likely sentiment at that point would be
"whelp! I am not getting anywhere. Might as well start a new PC which can maybe get someplace" and the cycle will continue over and over if an individual doesn't mind constantly suffering through it.
I've been here for a year despite not making much headway IG (because RL is a bitch) but I would still like to allow myself to be here in the years to come without any regrets which is why I think it is important that I scrutinize the changes this way and share my findings even if it isn't painting a pretty picture but don't just take my word for it! Look into the changes yourselves and think about how it would affect you in the future before you make your decision on how good it actually is, and not just because its new and different.
